Curse

Bryant Again · Jun 19, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

I just realized the answer to this question:

Grind in Guild Wars is okay because there's nothing left to do.

MSecorsky · Jun 19, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

This is really pretty simple. Sunspear rank comes rather easily and with it the benefits from Sunspear skills. However, this is only for that one character.

Faction rank is harder to get, however it affects all of your characters. Characters that never saw the dark side of PvP will still benefit from the work of your PvP characters.

So yes, the one that affects all your characters is more grindage, as it should be. Besides, you can do quite well without these skills (we all have so far...), so it's a purely optional grind as it is.

Diddy bow · Jun 19, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I just realized the answer to this question:

Grind in Guild Wars is okay because there's nothing left to do.

in a nut shell, thats it. What else can you do as a seasoned player, cept for pvp

.

EPO Bot · Jun 19, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Well i'm certainly not out of stuff to do. There are still elite skills out there i didn't capture yet and a lot of quests are still open. If i want i can take my Paragon trough Tyria and Cantha, but there isn't so much to get there for a pure elonian.

first goal is still having access to every single skill tough. then i can finally try some more serious pvp and maybe i even start looking for a guild to join.

People don't appreciate enough the huge ammount of game they got for 150 bucks. And it just gets more and more options for fun.

bilateralrope · Jun 19, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

This is really pretty simple. Sunspear rank comes rather easily and with it the benefits from Sunspear skills. However, this is only for that one character.

Faction rank is harder to get, however it affects all of your characters. Characters that never saw the dark side of PvP will still benefit from the work of your PvP characters.

So yes, the one that affects all your characters is more grindage, as it should be. Besides, you can do quite well without these skills (we all have so far...), so it's a purely optional grind as it is.

Sunspear max - 50'000 points
Lightbringer max - 50'000 points

Allegiance rank max - 10'000'000 points. Lets assume people only spend it on skills and donations which give double points. So 5 million.

So, assuming an equal points per minute rate, the account based title is 100 times the character based one. If someone can come up with the rates for the average player, we can calculate the actual difference in time invested. Then think of the people running only one or two characters.

But the reason people are against grinding is that they are being made to pay twice for the content. The first is the monetary cost of the game, the second is the grind required to access that content.

As for doing without those skills, thats true now. However hasn't ANET promised 100 PvE only title based skills in GW:EN, and that they will be on separate title tracks related to the various races there ?

If they are on titles like the SS and LB ones it will merely be annoying, but if they are on tracks like Kurzick/Luxon then they are going to lose a lot of the players that stay with guild wars because they like the skill > time played mechanic for PvE.

Also grind isn't really a good thing if your trying to have a game playable by people with only a few hours a week to play, because they will be forced to spend the little time they do get on the grind instead of the parts they enjoy.

Now if you feel the people doing the grinding should be rewarded, thats fine. Give them rewards that don't effect gameplay (armor/weapon skins, special emotes, minis, etc) or if they really deserve a reward something that allows them to earn gold faster (eg treasure hunter, wisdom and lucky title effects, items that can be resold, etc). But never give them anything that could get them into PUGs easier because they have better stats, no matter how small the benefit.

yishin · Jun 19, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Grind in Guild Wars is okay because there's nothing left to do.

Sadly this might be the case.

If I had known from the beginning that going for Kurzick/Luxon title would have given me access to extra skills then I would have worked for it instead of trading them for amber/jade.
This is the first time I felt disappointed in an update. Now that I think about it, I'm starting to feel gutted by the loot scaling update too. But that's another story.

Oh well, it's still far from GW2... Need to work on titles. Might as well add this Kurzick/Luxon one to the list. I just hope ANet has solved problem with the AFK faction farmers in Aspenwood (or in AB).

wetsparks · Jun 20, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Darktyco
I was responding to Amy Awien impling that I can sit in front of the computer all day grinding because I don't have a job and that I do nothing around the house. Neither of which is true.
And Amy Awien
You can get 50,000 faction in 5 hours because doing the Lutgardis run gets you 10,000 faction an hour. And you only need three other players to do the run. Also, repeating the same dull task over and over again is kind of like HA for Fame or TA or Gladiator points. And yes, for me all that is left is grinding for gold or grinding for faction or grinding for some other title because I have complete all three campaigns on all my characters. Since I don't like PVP, what else is there for me to do in the game?

Voltar · Jun 20, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

because spamming in local chat isn't.

Amy Awien · Jun 20, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Wetsparks, you were implying that not wanting to grind would somehow be an attitude that somehow would be awful for a boss:

Quote:

Frankly I hope none of you are over 10 years old because if that is your attitude and you have a real job it would be awful to be your boss.

And you don't even have a boss.

If you don't mind the grind, that's fine, but don't expect others to be like you and do not insult them for not wanting to grind.

acidic · Jun 20, 2007, 06:54 AM // 06:54

anet's stance:

Grinding is okay if you don't get rewarded. If somehow grinding rewards you, then the reward must be removed.

Charlotte the Harlot · Jun 20, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

A bit late, but here's a more fitting version:

"Boss, John Doe got a Christmas bonus. Why didn't I get one?"

"Well Mr. Smith, I've been keeping tabs on how you boys spend your paychecks. John donated all disposable income to Scientology, whereas you just bought some clothes."

"Haha, that's so funny... wait a minute, you're serious, aren't you?"

"Yes Mr. Smith, I'm perfectly serious."

"I see..."

"Would you like to take one of our free personality tests?"

lol nice one

but ya i agree it does seem like a kind of stupid thing to spend time on that now rewards you at least make it not such a boring/long grind.

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 20, 2007, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetsparks

You can get 50,000 faction in 5 hours because doing the Lutgardis run gets you 10,000 faction an hour. And you only need three other players to do the run. Also, repeating the same dull task over and over again is kind of like HA for Fame or TA or Gladiator points. And yes, for me all that is left is grinding for gold or grinding for faction or grinding for some other title because I have complete all three campaigns on all my characters. Since I don't like PVP, what else is there for me to do in the game?

Horrible comparison.

Repeating a quest a million times is similar to TA or HA? One involves just running using the same build over and over again....the other involves more complex builds, more thinking, and more effort. I can't possible imagine spending 5 hours repeating the same quest and barely getting any progress at all towards the title.

Then again, I imagine that were complete opposites. I have lots of time to sit and play the game, but unlike many players I hate grind. I've been playing the game a long time and the only titles I've ever maxed are the protector titles, which I don't even wear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetsparks

And there is a difference between working hard in real life and working hard in a game. To max some titles you do have to dedicate yourself and work at it. But all I see in this thread and others are people coming off as they want everything handed to them instead of trying to accomplish it.

Yes there's a huge difference. There's also between putting effort and working hard for somethin and just being bored and patient enough to get it. While you might like to think that you put effort and worked hard for your faction title, you arn't....sitting there dumbly for 5 hours using the same build doing the same easy thing is not hard work. You're just a patient person.

If you wanna feel a true sense of accomplishment, go win in the Hall of Heroes....the chest that appears has a slight possiblity of dropping a 500k+ item. That's real effort with a fine reward. You said you don't like pvp though so let's toss that idea out the window.....

Deleet · Aug 12, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

I don't want to work in real life, only to find out that I have to work in-game also because I can as free as everybody else.

I hate grinding, these faction skills nearly made me quit the game. I will never get any of these skills, I simply don't have the time or the patience.

"It's optinal!!11one".

Oh yeah, oh well. Playing the game is optimal too right? How about, that before you can use any skills, you have to do run around whole Tyria with them. Remember, you really dont need any skills to complete the game, they are all pure optimal.

Sigh

Bryant Again · Aug 12, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

I'd like to say "thread rez!!1!", but this is actually more relevent than it ever was before. Thanks, Deleet.

Kakumei · Aug 12, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deleet

I don't want to work in real life, only to find out that I have to work in-game also because I can as free as everybody else.

I hate grinding, these faction skills nearly made me quit the game. I will never get any of these skills, I simply don't have the time or the patience.

"It's optinal!!11one".

Oh yeah, oh well. Playing the game is optimal too right? How about, that before you can use any skills, you have to do run around whole Tyria with them. Remember, you really dont need any skills to complete the game, they are all pure optimal.

Sigh

As far as KL/Sunspear skills go, they are quite literally optional, unlike standard skills. Nowhere are they required, I've never seen a PUG demand any for entry, or anything like that.

Plus, you don't have to grind to get the SS ones. I can't imagine how you could go through any portion of Nightfall and not get at least rank 5, which is more than enough to make them functional.

Deleet · Aug 12, 2007, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

As far as KL/Sunspear skills go, they are quite literally optional, unlike standard skills. Nowhere are they required, I've never seen a PUG demand any for entry, or anything like that.

Plus, you don't have to grind to get the SS ones. I can't imagine how you could go through any portion of Nightfall and not get at least rank 5, which is more than enough to make them functional.

You're not listening. I was mostly refering to the insane ones, you see?
I'm aware that just playing normally will get you the LB/SS ones at nearly max level without much grind.

Besides, you're wrong. Standard skills are optimal too. Just like pugging is optimal. You can probably complete the game with nothing but the things you get in pre-searing and henchmen.

Voltar · Aug 12, 2007, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Yeah, I usually don't reread posts with death penalty but this is one of our friggin monks (not sure how that analogy worked out in the end).

I don't play WoW anymore because after about 5 months of that crap I caught on. I think the marketing term is, 'Artificial Demand'. Blizzard is the absolute best at wasting people's time jumping through "optional" hoops, just so they can find out that there's a new instance that will have quests with greens that make your epics look silly.

The titles never bothered me (well, except the balth ranks) until the pve skills were added. This crap sounds all too familiar. Is this what GW2 will look like?

Raganark · Aug 12, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

? whats up with all this aggravation with the PVE skills ?
the max luxon/kurzick titles don't raise the skills power that much and i have yet to get in a pug that demanded any pve skills

hallomik · Aug 12, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raganark

? whats up with all this aggravation with the PVE skills ?
the max luxon/kurzick titles don't raise the skills power that much and i have yet to get in a pug that demanded any pve skills

I agree. At the lowest level, the skills are pretty useful. They don't go up in power much at the higher level. There's really no reason to grind beyond rank one if you want the skills. They're not mandatory skills for any mission.

I guess it's the principle of the thing. You shouldn't have to grind for anything, and this change goes against that spirit or philosophy of GW - however slightly.

I put this in the category of people looking for something to talk / complain about.

Although, I will say Summon Spirits is almost mandatory for a sprit spammer in PVE. It's fantastic to be able to teleport all spirits to my current location and heal them a bit. The spirit spammers becomes almost a mini-minion master with this skill. Rank 1 is fine for this great skill.

Deleet · Aug 12, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

I agree. At the lowest level, the skills are pretty useful. They don't go up in power much at the higher level. There's really no reason to grind beyond rank one if you want the skills. They're not mandatory skills for any mission.

I guess it's the principle of the thing. You shouldn't have to grind for anything, and this change goes against that spirit or philosophy of GW - however slightly.

I put this in the category of people looking for something to talk / complain about.

Although, I will say Summon Spirits is almost mandatory for a sprit spammer in PVE. It's fantastic to be able to teleport all spirits to my current location and heal them a bit. The spirit spammers becomes almost a mini-minion master with this skill. Rank 1 is fine for this great skill.

The question is:
Why does it need to be a faction-based skill?
I mean, they could have added it, just to balance things out. Anet seems to have this law against adding new skills between releases. Hasty generalization from me there, but before they added the PvE only skills.